Request for Task Validation Maintenance

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Michael H.W. Weber
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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#61 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 21.10.2021 14:19

Jacob Klein hat geschrieben:
21.10.2021 13:33
Thank you. Do you know when that is planned for? Also, I'm available to help with validation, if desired.
We do not have a precise date yet, but it will happen in December and must be completed before 31st of December.
That's all I can tell you at present.
We will send another notification through BOINC manager as soon as we know more.

Michael.
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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#62 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 21.10.2021 15:50

Thank you.

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#63 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 24.10.2022 14:00

Can this be done yet, please? I'm seeing even more units fail validation where a manual validation could save years of work. We need maintenance, please. I don't have much patience left.

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#64 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 14.11.2022 14:24

Hello?

There are 2 more tasks that have gotten "Validate error", and we'd like to know why.
Can you please tell us why these 2 tasks failed to validate?
My wingman Fardringle and I babysat these tasks carefully. We took great efforts to complete them.
I completed them first (one on my account, another on Karen Mooney's account, my wife), and then Fardringle completed them second for validation.

Why were they invalidated?
Please help us. Please.

https://www.rnaworld.de/rnaworld/workun ... id=6330835
https://www.rnaworld.de/rnaworld/workun ... id=6330935

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#65 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 15.11.2022 08:31

That is strange. I have contacted Christian as I don't have access.

Michael.
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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#66 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 26.11.2022 23:49

Is any admin able to help resolve these tasks? I have asked for help for a VERY long time
... (The first ask for help in this thread was 4+ years ago!)
... and ... it seems like help never comes.

Do the project owners/admins want us crunchers to continue to help to solve these tasks?
If so, it's a two-way-street, because we need your help, too!

Please take some action, if you're still operating this project.
Please take some action.
Please.

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#67 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 02.12.2022 21:29

I still hope for action.
Please.

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#68 Ungelesener Beitrag von Fardringle » 03.12.2022 20:20

I agree. We let our computers run for MANY months on these tasks, with no credit for doing them, and apparently no interest from the project developer(s) to get these final tasks completed and validated properly. It's frustrating and feels like a waste of time and of money (power bills).

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#69 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 04.12.2022 14:56

Fardringle hat geschrieben:
03.12.2022 20:20
I agree. We let our computers run for MANY months on these tasks, with no credit for doing them, and apparently no interest from the project developer(s) to get these final tasks completed and validated properly. It's frustrating and feels like a waste of time and of money (power bills).
Indeed: "...apparently".

People who follow the project for a while, will have noticed that just at the beginning of this year we have moved the RNA World system to a new, powerfult (and costly) server.
So, I don't see any indication at our side to not have an interest in this project anymore.
What we lack for quite a while now is man/womenpower. :roll:

Background information:
I am really a bit sad about being asked the same topic over and over again.
I don't remember how many times I have communicated that, without our colleague, I can't access the system to validate the tasks.
Dozens of PMs have been exchanged regarding this problem with Jacob as well.
Unfortunately, as said before, there is nothing I can do about it right now.

But your credits don't go down depending on the time point when tasks are validated. And: They WILL be validated at some point and I think we are well-known for granting credits generously - especially for those taking on the monster tasks which undoubtedly are the most demanding tasks regarding runtime requirements among all distributed computing projects worldwide.
(And by the way, we will never re-do this again as long as we don't have any full-time employees to take care of these; that's at least one lesson learned for sure...).

Importantly, you should note one marked difference between us and other DC projects:
Whatever you find on the Rechenkraft.net website, the Yoyo@home project, the YAFU project and of course also the RNA World project sites is ENTIRELY operated on a SPARE TIME BASIS by people who are fully employed elsewhere, have families, multiple other duties, etc.
No one here receives a salary or other type of compensation for whatever we have done so far.
It is a community project and particularly RNA World has involved quite a number of former participants in contributing parts to the project. Including serious programming.

By contrast I remember multiple American projects who shut down operation IMMEDIATELY once funding expired. If we acted like this...
I will never forget a story regarding NanoHive: After funding of their project expired, I had contacted the main programmer behind the project asking whether we could help continuing this interesting project by e.g. offering free server space and help with administration. We even offered taking over operation of the entire project provided that the scientists behind it would continue to develop it, evaluate results, etc. While the main programmer was very helpful and interested, the professor in charge was not. When I asked him whether he could at least publish the results the project had achieved so far, he even asked for payment from us (!) to sit down and do that! Plain ridiculous to say the least. :uhoh:

As the only DC enthusiast community worldwide, Rechenkraft.net put into practice the transition from a loose DC-interested community to a registered organization in 2004 with the core intention in mind to lay the formal basis for funding aquisition and finally the employment of people interested in making their hobby (DC, programming) a job.
To my personal disappointment, so far we failed in the latter - despite all our efforts and engagement since more than 20 years now.
Even a two year's effort to help setup the now established fist Citzen Science fund of the German Government's Research Ministry (BMBF) wasn't helpful to acquire idependent funding and the Google Impact Challenge funds which we successfully acquired in 2016 were just enough to setup a small local MakerSpace.

What we need is a Citizen Science "interface" lab e.g. at some university where a few people are steadily employed to routinely setup and administer DC projetcs on demand for research groups world wide. In my opinion only this will foster DC longterm in a sustainable way.
We do have principal support here at Marburgs university from the director of the botanical garden, but - as ususal - funding is lacking. :roll:
Our next step is trying to look for international support instead of just national funding.

Michael.

P.S.: If this "hitting" on us with regard to the WU validation topic continues, I might consider to close a thread for the first time on this board. So, please don't do that. We do think and won't forget our to do list. We just can't act timely enough at this point - which is uncomfortable enough for us...
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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#70 Ungelesener Beitrag von Jacob Klein » 04.12.2022 18:13

This project requires maintenance. Otherwise these tasks don't get completed, and will keep failing validation, possibly due to a validator issue.
It is wasting our computers' time. And causing us great concern, towards the ability to get results for science. We care.

You mention that you require your colleague to administer this project appropriately. I presume that's Christian.
Is Christian available to help us? And what is your plan, do you have one? And how can anyone else help, to validate these tasks?

We are desperate for help, here.

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#71 Ungelesener Beitrag von Fardringle » 06.12.2022 06:42

Michael H.W. Weber hat geschrieben:
04.12.2022 14:56
Fardringle hat geschrieben:
03.12.2022 20:20
I agree. We let our computers run for MANY months on these tasks, with no credit for doing them, and apparently no interest from the project developer(s) to get these final tasks completed and validated properly. It's frustrating and feels like a waste of time and of money (power bills).
Indeed: "...apparently".

People who follow the project for a while, will have noticed that just at the beginning of this year we have moved the RNA World system to a new, powerfult (and costly) server.
So, I don't see any indication at our side to not have an interest in this project anymore.
What we lack for quite a while now is man/womenpower. :roll:
Response from you has been pretty good. It's the lack of response from the "colleague" that has been disappointing. There have been requests for an update from them for a VERY long time. And while I absolutely understand that volunteer work means that we cannot expect an immediate response, having no updates for years at a time is why I said that they apparently don't have any interest any more.

I appreciate that you try to stay involved. But it's still frustrating to spend so much computing time on these tasks, and have them end up failing validation.

On the bright side, some of those monster tasks that we completed in the last few months and that had been sitting with a failed validation status were just validated today, so it looks like someone on the 'inside' was able to get them fixed!

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Re: Request for Task Validation Maintenance

#72 Ungelesener Beitrag von Michael H.W. Weber » 07.12.2022 16:58

My colleague is actually a VERY reliable person who contributed a lot - even to the core development of BOINC - over more than a decade but since he is occupied with two very small kids, a new job and home, it is understandably difficult for him to respond to hobby topics. I know myself what it means to have several duties on top of having a family. :wink:

Also, please do not forget that the remaining few WUs we are talking about take a year or so to complete. So, although very unusual compared to other BOINC projetcs, in our case it is not surprising that validation takes a lot of time, too. Moreover, we have some tasks running outside BOINC in VMs. So it is a hell of manual work to ensure proper validation and also register all of that back on the BOINC server.

@Jacob: Do yo still have any tasks running outside BOINC right now?

I have decided to stop re-issueing work in case tasks are aborted. We will complete those on the server or at home to avoid bugging BOINC contributers with these any further. Mabye we will even abort those still circulating and give partial credits for those.
And of course validation is also on our list.

Will come back to you on this ASAP...

Michael.

P.S. I finally would like you to realize that RNA World and Rechenkraft.net project leads are VERY communicative to our volunteer contributors - much more responsive than most of the other BOINC projects where it appears to sometime have become a habit of simply not responding at all or (as is the case for the Ramanujan Machine BOINC project) not even maintain a forum but just a (proprietary) unsorted Discord channel - where nobody appears to respond, too.

If only we had a few more BOINC developers, we could do so much more in RNA World than what is currently possible. It is a pity. :roll:
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